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Osiris' Rogue Guide v3(New)
Stealth FAQ (EU)
Grinding Guide 1.0
Thoughts on a furious foe...
I am not sure about other servers, but on mine the Fury warrior is alive and kicking. They are not nearly as popular as the ever present MS warrior, but you see them every now and then in the battlegrounds. Fighting a fury warrior is a much different fight than a Mortal Strike warrior, and I would like to share some of my thoughts on it. But first, I will define the nature of the beast for those that aren't up on their warrior knowledge.
A warrior is the toe to toe master of WoW. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise. They wear the heaviest armor in the game, have a truck load of hit points, and are capable of neutralizing a rogues key strengths. Good warriors will always Rend you, so that stealth is not an option. They will also Hamstring you, so that escape is a fleeting hope. Here is where Fury and Arms warriors split. Arms is the most popular talent tree for Warriors because it has Mortal Strike. A really strong attack that will make you wish you could shield+hearth when it crits, and also has the benefit of a healing debuff. So, can't even rely on a blind+bandage or a potion to recover from a nasty MS. The issue that MS warriors have is that their weapons are slow. They are slow for the same reason a Rogue likes slow weapons; they hit harder. What this means to us is that if they miss, it seems like an eternity before they swing again. It is debatable whether or not you want to use Evasion against these guys. Overpower is really nasty, but it might be worth getting hit with Overpower rather than MS. Personally, I prefer not to use it, because MS warriors sing so slowly that giving them a free overpower with those huge two handers has worked out poorly. It always seems to work out that they get Overpower -> Execute. Not good.
The flip side of the plate wearing, battle shouting coin is the Fury warrior. (I will leave Protection warriors out of this because they are Pve only by and large) A fury warrior is a dual wielding warrior that speeds up as they get critical strikes. At the beginning of a fight, they are not too nasty, but once they start to crit, they are like a thresher. These guys generally go for the same weapons and jewelry that we do, so watch out for ninja 'dps warriors'... So, when you are fighting a Fury warrior, what do you do differently, and how do they behave. They will still charge/intercept -> Hamsting+Rend. After that it like you are dancing with another rogue. Their attacks come fast and hit hard. They can sustain really high DPS, and it only gets nastier as the fight goes on. I treat this fight just like I would treat a fight with another Rogue. They swing so often, and their momentum is based on getting crits, so Evasion can really stall them out. Their Overpowers are done with one handers, so they hit way lighter than an MS warrior's Overpower, so you don't have to fear it very much. Ideally its best to stun lock a Fury warrior as long as you can, and get their health nice and low before you begin the dance of death, but often in BG's that is not an option. Here are some other things you might consider doing if you know that a Fury warrior is about...
Try Instant Poison on these guys. They will intercept you anyway if you get too far away, and they want to be close to you in order to kill. Generally a warrior won’t run away, so crippling is not as huge. Besides, you need the extra dps that by passes their huge armor.
Even when you are bleeding from a nasty Rend, if you are quick about it you can get off a Vanish+Cheapshot between the ticks of the bleed. This will stop them in their tracks. Momentum is everything to a Fury Warrior. Try to stop them and make them start slowly again.
No MS means no healing debuff. Don't be afraid to bandage in a fight. Even half of a bandage is 1k hit points back.
As stated before, Evade.
Obviously, if you blow all of your cool downs in a fight, you will probably win. I am suggesting that you start with one, and if you have to use others, don't be afraid. That is what they are for.
So, give some of these things a try, and let me know how they work. Also, leave a comment and tell me some of your Fury strategies.
Lastly, I'd like to give a tip of the hat to my buddy Hasmed, who is not only an old Rogue pro, but plays a top notch Fury warrior. Most of my tactics are derived from conversations with him.
Cheers,
Zyk
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posted by Zyk at 3/18/2006
Cerias Shadows
Zyk
Osiris
Khormid
8 Comments:
With regards to fury warriors, I tend to treat them as I would any other warrior. I run with one of these warriors and often duel him. I use a Hemo-Prep spec with the added premeditation. The crucial point for me is how I operate the opener. It is crucial to Expose Armor in that opener (assuming of course I have the initiative, which as a good rogue I should always have when one on one with an opponent.). The reason why I love premeditation for one on one combat is the simple fact that I get a free opener. If the warrior does not have backup I will do the following:
Premed (+2 CP), CS (+2 or +3 CP), Expose armor, Gouge, Restealth.
With this he never came out of stun and can not rend you.
If around a bunch of people like in BG I may Thistle tea and vanish.
(The great thing about the restealth is that you get out of shout Range, more often than not if you get this free opener on a warrior he is going to shout right after thinking you are close enough to bring you out of stealth)
After this initial opener it is time for the kill.
One on one I will open with a Ambush, gouge, BS, Hemo (more often than not I am at 5 CP here) Evis => Kite (Total yellow damage usually between 3k-4k opposed to the 1k if you didn’t expose armor)
*Poisons => I will often use a mixture of Cripple and instant poison, or double cripple. I disagree with the fact that you do not need cripple poison because the cripple poison is more powerful than the hamstring which you are probably inflicted with after the second engagement. This will allow you to effectively kite the warrior until you get some energy rebuilt.
The finisher => I will then open with a gouge, wait for energy regen, spam Hemo (gotta love Hemo even with improved SS, Hemo requires less energy and allows for CP build up quicker) Finally if still alive Evis. (often times I do not have to wait for a full 5 point Evis to finish)
Wit regards to evasion => against duel wielding Fury warriors this is a must toe to toe. It will ensure your victory. Like stated in the initial post the white damage attacks come quick and still hit very hard. I will take the Overpower any day over the massive amount of white damage dished out by this spec of warrior.
With regards to fury warriors, I tend to treat them as I would any other warrior. I run with one of these warriors and often duel him. I use a Hemo-Prep spec with the added premeditation. The crucial point for me is how I operate the opener. It is crucial to Expose Armor in that opener (assuming of course I have the initiative, which as a good rogue I should always have when one on one with an opponent.). The reason why I love premeditation for one on one combat is the simple fact that I get a free opener. If the warrior does not have backup I will do the following:
Premed (+2 CP), CS (+2 or +3 CP), Expose armor, Gouge, Restealth.
With this he never came out of stun and can not rend you.
If around a bunch of people like in BG I may Thistle tea and vanish.
(The great thing about the restealth is that you get out of shout Range, more often than not if you get this free opener on a warrior he is going to shout right after thinking you are close enough to bring you out of stealth)
After this initial opener it is time for the kill.
One on one I will open with a Ambush, gouge, BS, Hemo (more often than not I am at 5 CP here) Evis => Kite (Total yellow damage usually between 3k-4k opposed to the 1k if you didn’t expose armor)
*Poisons => I will often use a mixture of Cripple and instant poison, or double cripple. I disagree with the fact that you do not need cripple poison because the cripple poison is more powerful than the hamstring which you are probably inflicted with after the second engagement. This will allow you to effectively kite the warrior until you get some energy rebuilt.
The finisher => I will then open with a gouge, wait for energy regen, spam Hemo (gotta love Hemo even with improved SS, Hemo requires less energy and allows for CP build up quicker) Finally if still alive Evis. (often times I do not have to wait for a full 5 point Evis to finish)
Wit regards to evasion => against duel wielding Fury warriors this is a must toe to toe. It will ensure your victory. Like stated in the initial post the white damage attacks come quick and still hit very hard. I will take the Overpower any day over the massive amount of white damage dished out by this spec of warrior.
Thanks for the info, Roguespot. I will definately try this out. I just turned level 52 and I have been AVing my butt off. Not for Lobotimizer one day, but because AV is the most fun I've had in a BG so far. So, yeah, I'm 52 and I'm 2 shotting (Ambush,backstab) stupid level 60 Warlocks and Mages. It's fun. But I have run into some mean looking Warriors and got it handed to me. I don't know much about other classes and their specs, but now I'll definately look to see what kind of Warrior I'm facing.
Evasion is a no, no against MS. Got it!
The evaision is a debatable subject. In Mings dueling guide you will find that he states to use the evasion due to the fact that white damage is worse. I suppose it also has to do with whcih stance and build the warrior is using. Makeing the warrior switch stances and sarificing his rage might help against the execute.
I have a very good percentage one on one verses warriors. I'd say its a good 80%+ and that even includes the rank 14 and uber weapons wielding ones.
I'm a dagger rogue using 31/8/12 build.
For starters, I ALWAYS have dual crippling on as being able to kite them is essential.
To start I ambush if they arn't running around jumping like crazy but usually just do the CS to be safe. Then I follow with a BS then a KS and run away to recharge. Try to find that sweet spot that is between their melee range and intercept. Always restealth if you can so you can get another opener. Even if you cant restealth kite them till you have a full energy bar and run back in starting with a gouge to set up a BS. Empty your energy and run out of melee range again for recharging.
If they intercept you always gouge and if you have energy BS else kite a bit more to recharge.
I rarely Evis them as KS is better here and since i am kiting them so much I rarely run into diminishing returns. Once they get low (~1k health) then I will CB Evis to finish them off.
We really cant go toe-to-toe with a decent warrior so don't try to just stand there and outdamage them.
I am also a Seal Fate rogue and I have to say that Warriors are generally the easiest class for me to duel and dominate.
I always use crippling poisons. It's very easy to beat a warrior if you know how to kite/stun (orcs are the tough ones). Open with a cheapshot, SS, gouge and wait for energy. Kidney shot at end of gouge and put another ss or two on them.
This next part is the MOST important, hit esc and lose target and get the hell out of their melee range. In 4 seconds you can restealth and cheap shot again. This may seem odd because you lose your 2-3 combo points, but it is critical. There is a large area of range where you are too close to intercept, but too far to melee. If you stay in this range and only go in while stealthed to stunlock, warriors are cake.
I'm a rogue with moderate gear. I have 1 piece of nightslayer, my AV stuff, and Darkmoon stuff (ammy and maelstorm). I've proved again and again to cocky warriors on my server that I own them with this strategy (it works on rogues also). Gear isn't really an issue because you can repeat these steps over and over.
There are a few problems that may arise. Say you miss a gouge or stun, they will either get a hamstring or bleed on you. If you react right they won't have time for both. If it's a hamstring quickly vanish and cheapshot when you are ready. If it's a bleed, you should still have poisons on them so get away and wait for your gouge/ks to come back up. Once it is up, go in again and start your process, just make sure you are giving yourself plenty of time to restealth.
90% of rogues don't realize that they can get out of combat fast in pvp and restealth. Learn how to do this and you will become a much better rogue.
How U Kill Paladin?
Iv Killed Warrior up to 7lvls above
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